WEBVTT 1 00:00:17.290 --> 00:00:19.139 John Compton: Hey, everybody! Hey, Charlie! 2 00:00:19.660 --> 00:00:20.700 Charlie Challstrom: Hi, John! 3 00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:46.730 John Sloan! 4 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.450 Join the meeting. 5 00:01:04.420 --> 00:01:05.650 Peter: hey? Everybody! 6 00:01:07.270 --> 00:01:09.370 John Compton: Afternoon and good evening. 7 00:01:09.490 --> 00:01:18.290 Peter: Charlie. It's weird seeing you. I never see you in these meetings anymore. Good to see you tonight. Yeah. 8 00:01:22.430 --> 00:01:23.900 Eva: Hi, everyone. 9 00:01:24.190 --> 00:01:26.560 Peter: hey, Eva. 10 00:01:26.690 --> 00:01:30.749 Kathy Lehman: I'm gonna be eating my dinner. So I'm gonna turn my video off. But I'm here. 11 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:35.130 John Compton: We won't believe it. But that's okay. 12 00:02:36.660 --> 00:02:39.440 Barbara: Christine said. She might be a couple minutes late. 13 00:02:39.480 --> 00:02:40.600 John Compton: Okay. 14 00:02:40.980 --> 00:02:43.990 John Compton: well, it's just not late yet, so 15 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:46.440 John Compton: we've got 16 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.460 John Compton: 16 people. I guess 17 00:02:55.530 --> 00:02:57.600 Robert Booher: Nikki Haley is winning right now. 18 00:02:58.880 --> 00:03:00.640 John Compton: So that's gonna last. 19 00:03:02.610 --> 00:03:03.910 Peter: Who's who's that? 20 00:03:05.590 --> 00:03:06.780 Kathy Lehman: Yeah. 21 00:04:17.269 --> 00:04:19.740 John Compton: I forgot to put the waiting room on 22 00:04:20.149 --> 00:04:22.260 John Compton: on tonight's meeting. So 23 00:04:22.550 --> 00:04:24.180 John Compton: we'll see how that goes. 24 00:04:52.030 --> 00:04:55.770 John Compton: That explains that. 25 00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:06.050 John Compton: Hmm 26 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:12.990 John Compton: who is 301 blah! Blah! 8,593. 27 00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:17.540 John McClelland: That's me, John Mcleod. 28 00:05:18.640 --> 00:05:19.930 John Compton: Okay. 29 00:05:24.020 --> 00:05:26.479 Peter: so are you gonna get 2 votes tonight, John. 30 00:05:27.810 --> 00:05:29.369 John Compton: He gets 5 votes. 31 00:05:29.660 --> 00:05:37.559 John Compton: He's he's got 2. He's got 2 squares. It's got too many squares tied up. Yeah. 32 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:52.060 John Compton: Oh, right? Well, we have everybody. But Christine. Whiz is is Rob here 33 00:05:52.470 --> 00:05:54.470 John Compton: and Rob, you're right. 34 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:03.610 John Compton: There's Christine. Okay. 35 00:06:07.630 --> 00:06:11.639 John Compton: couple more minutes, and we'll get this show on the road. 36 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:53.250 Peter: Georgette, your video with Ernie is set up perfectly so. That looks like Ernie 37 00:06:53.320 --> 00:06:54.950 Peter: is in front of you. 38 00:06:55.610 --> 00:06:57.619 Peter: and he looks like he's a puppet. 39 00:06:58.950 --> 00:07:02.729 Peter: It's true, it does it, doesn't it? Yeah, it's great. 40 00:07:10.730 --> 00:07:12.880 Peter: Don't take that personally, Eric. 41 00:07:22.670 --> 00:07:25.759 Peter: All the usual suspects are here. 42 00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:28.489 Peter: Hmm, yeah. 43 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:45.180 John Compton: but it hasn't been 44 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:51.040 John Compton: open. What's that mean? 45 00:07:55.100 --> 00:07:57.740 John Compton: Yeah, Rob's having a problem. 46 00:07:58.310 --> 00:08:08.640 John Compton: sta. 47 00:08:24.030 --> 00:08:27.189 John Compton: Bob, that probably has the wrong link. 48 00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:30.219 John Compton: but I gave it to him just now. 49 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:34.030 John Compton: Okay. 50 00:08:34.590 --> 00:08:35.950 Paula Puglisi: maybe 51 00:08:47.900 --> 00:08:51.099 Peter: there we go. Yeah. 52 00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:52.760 John Compton: right? 53 00:08:55.170 --> 00:09:05.870 John Compton: Okay. Well, it's 7, 36. So it's a call. The public hearing on ordinance 202308 54 00:09:06.090 --> 00:09:09.450 John Compton: to order 55 00:09:10.070 --> 00:09:11.390 John Compton: the 56 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:16.290 John Compton: I can read the name amending the Washington Grove 57 00:09:16.780 --> 00:09:24.280 John Compton: zoning ordinance to expand housing opportunities and update vehicle parking requirements 58 00:09:24.970 --> 00:09:31.350 John Compton: this was proposed by the planning commission transmitted to the Council on 59 00:09:31.430 --> 00:09:34.660 John Compton: on December eleventh. 60 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:41.029 John Compton: So we're holding public hearing as as specified in our charter. 61 00:09:41.340 --> 00:09:45.180 John Compton: I could give a brief. 62 00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:57.200 John Compton: Does anybody is anyone interested in a brief overview of this ordinance, or can we go directly to any testimony and in public, input. 63 00:09:57.610 --> 00:10:01.800 John Compton: if you want a brief review, I'll make use of some 64 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:06.660 John Compton: some slide provided by the planning commission for that purpose. 65 00:10:10.420 --> 00:10:12.550 Joan Mahaffey: No? Well, I think. 66 00:10:12.570 --> 00:10:14.269 John McClelland: and we'll do a brief review. 67 00:10:14.880 --> 00:10:15.930 John Compton: Sorry? 68 00:10:26.790 --> 00:10:28.979 John Compton: Alright. Well, here's this 69 00:10:30.150 --> 00:10:32.799 John Compton: this brief set of 70 00:10:33.820 --> 00:10:41.289 John Compton: John, before you start. Is Rob here or not? Yes, Rob's there he is in the small. 71 00:10:41.530 --> 00:10:42.460 John Compton: He's there. 72 00:10:42.990 --> 00:10:43.900 Kathy Lehman: Gotcha! 73 00:10:44.470 --> 00:11:02.300 John Compton: Alright! I don't think I need to define what an ad! Well, maybe we will. It's subordinate, and ado is a second rolling unit, subordinate to the owner, occupied main one family dwelling located on the la! On that on the lot with the house. That that is the main. 74 00:11:02.650 --> 00:11:10.170 John Compton: the one family residence. They go by a lot of names. We're not going to go through all of that sorry 75 00:11:11.430 --> 00:11:30.569 John Compton: here's the formal definition. And with comparison to an accessory structure. So an accessory structure is just another building subordinate to the principal building or the the residence. 76 00:11:30.740 --> 00:11:34.339 John Compton: it's incidental to the use of the principal building. 77 00:11:34.380 --> 00:11:42.330 John Compton: It's not attached in any way to the principal building, an accessory dwelling unit. 78 00:11:42.750 --> 00:11:45.959 John Compton: Comes in 2 flavors. 79 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:51.149 John Compton: one is the Detat is an is an attached 80 00:11:51.260 --> 00:12:04.660 John Compton: accessory dweller unit that showed here in this middle that drawing, showing the blue attached to the main resonance, so still supporting it to the 81 00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:15.840 John Compton: principal dwelling. It is a second dwelling unit, which is defined often by the presence of a sleeping quarters. 82 00:12:15.950 --> 00:12:20.270 John Compton: kitchen, and some other 83 00:12:20.760 --> 00:12:24.029 John Compton: which escapes me, but we all see it as sometime shortly. 84 00:12:24.280 --> 00:12:30.360 John Compton: The other form of an adu is detached. That's in the lower diagram. 85 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:41.430 John Compton: which is simply an accessory. Do an accessory structure. In this case intended to for occupation 86 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:51.320 John Compton: by a a residential as a residential unit, also containing the kitchen. living quarters and 87 00:12:51.830 --> 00:12:54.839 John Compton: bathroom facilities may be be the third 88 00:12:55.060 --> 00:13:06.080 John Compton: do we? Do we need to define, subordinate to? Or is that already defined in, the that's defined? Subordinate means subordinate means that the 89 00:13:06.190 --> 00:13:19.529 John Compton: well, I don't. I can't, don't, don't let me just up off the top of my hand, but it it's it's a yeah, it's a defined and I'm not sure that our ordinances use subordinate. They use different language. 90 00:13:19.930 --> 00:13:26.380 John Compton: so they put forward their potential concerns. This is relative to Washington Grove. 91 00:13:26.660 --> 00:13:31.630 John Compton: Adopting enabling ad use. 92 00:13:31.670 --> 00:13:38.610 John Compton: One of them is enforcement which the planning Commission propose proposes 93 00:13:38.660 --> 00:13:46.129 John Compton: to solve by simply adopting the Montgomery County. Adu 94 00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:48.220 John Compton: licensing process. 95 00:13:48.550 --> 00:13:55.310 John Compton: which has been around for now 4 years, I think. And 96 00:13:55.330 --> 00:13:59.130 John Compton: has been operating effectively. 97 00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:06.960 John Compton: There was a presentation by some people out of that office a year or so ago, maybe. 98 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:12.400 John Compton: ex, explaining that odia presenting their experience. 99 00:14:13.040 --> 00:14:16.469 John Compton: Okay, the other item is there concerns for parking 100 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:30.179 John Compton: and from parking. And this is actually 2 here. 2 is actually 3 parking but also moving away from the Washington Grove Single family, residential character. 101 00:14:31.060 --> 00:14:34.959 John Compton: So they're really those 3 are called out. 102 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:47.470 John Compton: Then what would? What would change in our ordinances? And this is simply a summary of of effect, of of the effect. The actual ordinance changes are in the ordinance. Zta proposal. 103 00:14:47.540 --> 00:15:00.630 John Compton: And we're not gonna get into that tonight, unless somebody addresses it. It changes the the definition of 104 00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:02.329 John Compton: of the 105 00:15:02.430 --> 00:15:03.440 and 106 00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:11.970 John Compton: the the household then at the household, but structure from one family to a single family primary residence. 107 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:18.370 John Compton: in addition, then one attached or detached 108 00:15:18.450 --> 00:15:32.089 John Compton: accessory dwelling unit. Henceforth adu is permitted on the property meeting specific specific criteria. And here's one a maximum of 2 additional bedrooms. 109 00:15:32.430 --> 00:15:41.350 John Compton: An on-site parking spot for each bedroom. So that would be you'd have the the 110 00:15:41.430 --> 00:15:49.860 John Compton: the property would would have to have a maximum, because maximum, 2 bedrooms. So if it had 2 bedrooms, 2 of the sparking spots would be 111 00:15:49.870 --> 00:16:02.249 John Compton: would be in conjunction with the adu. The other 2 are required for the the primary resonance, that is all. Already a requirement in our 112 00:16:02.380 --> 00:16:06.149 John Compton: ordinances and a maximum of 4 113 00:16:06.410 --> 00:16:10.249 John Compton: parking spots off site on. I'm sorry on site. 114 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:16.110 John Compton: is also required currently. 115 00:16:17.510 --> 00:16:18.780 John Compton: where possible. 116 00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:20.510 John Compton: So keep in mind. 117 00:16:20.650 --> 00:16:35.240 John Compton: Some, you know, variety of our our, our re, our properties do not have room for all of these on site parking, and they are exempted. And to the extent that 118 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:38.710 John Compton: off site parking is available, restricted 119 00:16:39.430 --> 00:16:46.129 John Compton: and then the adu must be licensed for rental by the Montgomery County Department of housing. 120 00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:48.020 John Compton: What would not change. 121 00:16:48.080 --> 00:17:03.759 John Compton: There's no change, no proposed change in the setbacks, the maximum height for any of the zones. The res primary residence has to conform to building standards, and the dispatched adu has to has to conform to accessory 122 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:05.930 John Compton: building standards. 123 00:17:06.349 --> 00:17:09.919 John Compton: but in addition it will have some of its own requirements. 124 00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:17.330 John Compton: No change, a lot coverage, no change in maximum enclosed space on each in each zone. 125 00:17:17.369 --> 00:17:21.810 John Compton: These are already specified. It wouldn't change. 126 00:17:21.829 --> 00:17:27.219 John Compton: And once again, no change in the number of vehicles allowed to be part 127 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:31.629 John Compton: on each lot. So that's this is a rough summary of what? 128 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:36.249 John Compton: The main features of the proposed 129 00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:39.370 John Compton: ordinance is so 130 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:44.460 Christine Dibble: and I had a question for Georgia and or Peter. 131 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:51.010 Christine Dibble: Can you remind us like, if somebody wanted to have an ad. You 132 00:17:51.160 --> 00:18:05.370 Christine Dibble: I don't. It doesn't matter whether it's attached or detached. but if they needed to add one or 2 parking spaces. and they just wanted to put, say, gravel down on a part of their 133 00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:06.680 Christine Dibble: front yard 134 00:18:06.750 --> 00:18:11.680 Christine Dibble: next to where their their 2 cars are, or they wanted to put asphalt down. 135 00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:17.510 Christine Dibble: What's the process for? Is there a permitting process for that? Because 136 00:18:17.780 --> 00:18:21.980 Christine Dibble: part of the parking area would 137 00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:28.300 Christine Dibble: most likely be on town property? You know the part where it meets the street 138 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:41.260 Christine Dibble: or I just wanted to everybody to get reminded of whether that would have to be permitted or not separately. It does have to be, and we have a 139 00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:48.940 Georgette Cole: specified permit for parking arrangements, driveways. 140 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:54.980 Christine Dibble: and so does that parking, I mean parking require permit requirements. 141 00:18:55.110 --> 00:18:59.349 Christine Dibble: Only apply if part of the area is downtown property. 142 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.979 Georgette Cole: Yes. So, although I suspect 143 00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:06.920 Christine Dibble: 95% of the time property would be involved. 144 00:19:07.620 --> 00:19:09.300 Georgette Cole: Yes, but 145 00:19:09.510 --> 00:19:15.110 Georgette Cole: II could see. say, for example, at my house. 146 00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:18.470 Kathy Lehman: it would not be impossible to 147 00:19:18.780 --> 00:19:38.040 Georgette Cole: not change the current driveway, but to add a gravel area that you would access by driving on the current driveway, and I don't think that that would require a permit, because you're not using any town land to do it. I just wanted to double check on that. 148 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:39.480 Peter: Hmm! 149 00:19:42.340 --> 00:19:45.840 John McClelland: So how many Cut-throughs would be allowed? 150 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:54.629 John McClelland: Well, she just said that you'd have to have a permit 151 00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:09.470 John McClelland: if let's say you are not using a current driveway pass. So if you've got 4 parking spaces, could you feasibly get 4 cut throughs through town? The road to town property on to private property. 152 00:20:10.620 --> 00:20:18.889 John McClelland: Is there a size amount of land that you could cut over? Yeah, I think that's a very good point, John, and that's probably something 153 00:20:18.970 --> 00:20:23.730 Georgette Cole: that the planning commission should look at specifically and separately 154 00:20:23.850 --> 00:20:27.460 Peter: and and also this doesn't really. 155 00:20:27.620 --> 00:20:34.140 Peter: I mean, okay, we're talking about ad use right now. But this this would just be in general for anybody. 156 00:20:34.210 --> 00:20:41.919 Peter: It could be somebody that you're allowed for parking spots. Then it could come up with, in fact, Craig with the with the church house 157 00:20:41.950 --> 00:20:51.330 Peter: we had. We had some discussions about that back then also. Oh. so that would be. That's Georgette, so that would be handled individually by the planning commission. 158 00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:55.059 marywarfield: And, John, you you said that 159 00:20:56.360 --> 00:21:01.970 marywarfield: You said that there'd be an exception if the property did not have on-site 160 00:21:02.210 --> 00:21:19.149 John Compton: parking. How would what would the process of that? Because I can see that being we have zones. We have zones which are have small lots, and they generally have very little 161 00:21:19.580 --> 00:21:21.609 John Compton: property for an accessory 162 00:21:21.830 --> 00:21:36.459 John Compton: building. So 1 one in general can't add on yeah, either either parking or or building, or could they? Nor could they do an ad you. 163 00:21:36.810 --> 00:21:43.949 Peter: So they still have everybody. Still, you know, it's not supposed to have more than 4 vehicles per 164 00:21:44.010 --> 00:21:46.379 John Compton: primary primary residents. 165 00:21:48.040 --> 00:21:50.549 John Compton: By the way, that's 4 vehicles 166 00:21:50.670 --> 00:21:58.610 John Compton: period stored or drivable, 2 dead ones in the backyard that counts. 167 00:21:58.860 --> 00:22:03.759 John Compton: and we. We have gone after people with too many vehicles. 168 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:20.579 Marilynn Frey: John, question on that, because I'm concerned about the enforcement. You say you've gone after people, but I sat here for 20 years listening to everybody scream about my neighbor having 10 room more cars parked every night, and nothing was ever thought about 169 00:22:21.110 --> 00:22:25.970 Marilynn Frey: what will, how, how will this enforcement be any different than it was against Doug? 170 00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:38.489 John Compton: Well, it won't. I mean it's it it our parking is enforceable. Are you talking about the Washington Grove Lane in front on Washington Grove Lane? 171 00:22:38.530 --> 00:22:43.340 Marilynn Frey: Well, yeah, I mean, it's addressed as Washington Grove Lane. But his. His 172 00:22:43.370 --> 00:22:46.539 Marilynn Frey: parking is off of opa oak. 173 00:22:48.190 --> 00:22:51.939 Marilynn Frey: He is gone now. It's no longer an issue, but for 20 years 174 00:22:52.410 --> 00:23:00.119 Marilynn Frey: people were always screaming about him, having all that. It's fine, it is, I mean, I dealt with somebody on Washington Road Lane who had 2 175 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:07.630 John Compton: unregistered registration labs. I think we took care of that never was during Covid. 176 00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:20.819 John Compton: I can speak to your issue, but we we do have tools to deal with parking. You just have to do it. It's it's it's 177 00:23:22.310 --> 00:23:36.900 John Compton: you know, I mean III know how to do it now, and I think we can do it effectively without without you know, ultimately, fines. I mean, you threaten fines. You threaten towing. You can do all kinds of stuff. But yeah. 178 00:23:37.110 --> 00:23:50.439 Marilynn Frey: but for 20 years none of it was done. Well, I don't know that I can't even remember who you're talking about, or what the complaints were, because it was his address was 201 Washington and Grove Lane, but 179 00:23:50.560 --> 00:24:00.650 Marilynn Frey: it was the Yellow house right next door to mine, whatever, and he he consistently had 10 to 12 cars parked there every night. 180 00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:14.430 Marilynn Frey: Okay, well, what can I say? If if he's not, if it's not happening now, we can't do anything with my question is, if it couldn't be enforced, then why do we think we can be enforced now up and being attacked by a cat? 181 00:24:14.740 --> 00:24:20.340 John Compton: It can be enforced. That's what I'm saying is, it can be enforced. 182 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.170 John Compton: Just have to go ahead and do it. 183 00:24:26.660 --> 00:24:30.240 Peter: We have the tools to enforce it. What more can I say. 184 00:24:30.430 --> 00:24:31.130 John Compton: Yeah. 185 00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:39.389 Peter: right? And I can. I can speak for myself as a member of the Council, and I think maybe one or 2 other council people that we will we. 186 00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:57.709 Peter: This is like the key to this working is to make to ensure that there's only 4 cars, and we've had a few other examples where there's been cars parking on streets, and they're not there any longer. And yeah, we we do not want to see this because it's not gonna work. If we don't enforce our laws. 187 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:08.030 Peter: And I think well, I think we've made that. You know we're getting our attorney involved. John's getting the attorney involved to help us with the abandoned houses, and I think that we're moving into a new era where we will be doing enforcement. 188 00:25:10.790 --> 00:25:26.060 John Compton: Trust us. Watch should be. 189 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:34.559 John Compton: You know we do have the tools to enforce it. It's just a matter of taking the appropriate steps. 190 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:45.699 John Compton: that that is, you know. Let's not go back to talk about that individual. But you know, anybody in cars has other issues with that property 191 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:49.510 John Compton: other than cars. 192 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:53.870 John Compton: Okay? 193 00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.629 John Compton: that. That was just a brief thing. I'm not gonna 194 00:25:57.670 --> 00:26:12.979 John Compton: in the Ord, you know. The ordinance consists of a pretty explicit set of where houses which explains what the approach of this ordinance is, I mean, I'm not gonna show it because everybody should have read it. 195 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:19.249 John Compton: You'll have to read it on your own. You're welcome to comment on that, whereas, as well as the 196 00:26:19.290 --> 00:26:25.190 John Compton: the the specific changes in in ordinance, in in the ordinances. 197 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:31.210 John Compton: No one else wants to discuss anything in general. Then 198 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:52.000 John Compton: then let's move on. So far, we're just discussing asking questions about what the intentions are. That sort of thing. Oh. 199 00:26:52.030 --> 00:26:53.790 I'm sorry. Then go ahead. 200 00:26:54.830 --> 00:26:56.640 John Compton: Okay, 201 00:26:56.730 --> 00:27:03.110 John Compton: alright in in in whatever order anyone cares to 202 00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:08.069 John Compton: ha! Ha! Express their what they came to say. 203 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:17.740 John Compton: Let's go ahead. II do wanna say at the outset, as was said in the most recent the most recent grove, alert. 204 00:27:18.020 --> 00:27:31.910 John Compton: testifying, you know, in person where there's an opportunity to have a little give and take is is great and valuable. But anyone who who is testifying should by absolutely 205 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:38.880 John Compton: produce a written written testimony for for reference. By the Council. 206 00:27:38.890 --> 00:27:50.529 John Compton: I think the Council is, gonna take very seriously any objections I know the planning commission, or that's objections. Any suggestions? I know the planning commission. Did they spend a lot of time 207 00:27:50.800 --> 00:28:08.939 John Compton: putting this together, looking at all from all sides, and then and then took a lot of your comments, and others comments into account and made some modifications. And now that's where we are. With the Council on this time 208 00:28:08.970 --> 00:28:11.839 John Compton: looking and taking into account your 209 00:28:11.870 --> 00:28:14.089 John Compton: your comments plus their own concern. 210 00:28:15.780 --> 00:28:23.730 John Compton: Okay? Looks like Mimi raised her hand. And she's up there. So, Mimi, yeah, yeah, John, I just wondered. 211 00:28:24.010 --> 00:28:27.070 Mimi Bolotin: the line about the license it 212 00:28:27.300 --> 00:28:36.329 Mimi Bolotin: of the ad use for work by the people who oversee landlord, tenant relations, or whatever that line was. 213 00:28:36.350 --> 00:28:42.880 Mimi Bolotin: is that true? If someone builds an inlaw sweep and doesn't intend to charge the rent. 214 00:28:46.210 --> 00:28:53.230 John Compton: you're asking about a if it currently 215 00:28:53.570 --> 00:28:57.020 John Compton: if you haven't your in-laws staying in your house. 216 00:28:57.210 --> 00:29:01.460 Mimi Bolotin: No, I'm asking if you build a to use specifically for famel. 217 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:04.370 John Compton: they have to be licensed. 218 00:29:04.820 --> 00:29:09.900 Mimi Bolotin: Well, it it needs to be licensed, even though. Okay, okay, that's what I want. 219 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:13.080 John Compton: Yeah, it doesn't matter what you're charging for it. 220 00:29:13.120 --> 00:29:14.949 Mimi Bolotin: Okay, thank you. 221 00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:20.859 John Compton: Okay? And next 222 00:29:25.410 --> 00:29:35.230 John Compton: everybody else just came to listen. So we received some written comment. Already. In particular, we received written comment from 223 00:29:35.250 --> 00:29:37.239 John Compton: the Hpc. 224 00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:39.999 John Compton: And from rescue. 225 00:29:40.100 --> 00:29:45.400 John Compton: the Hpc. Made 2 226 00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:47.560 John Compton: proposed to 227 00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:50.850 John Compton: suggested changes. 228 00:29:51.020 --> 00:29:56.510 John Compton: And recipe, I think, proposed 229 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:58.739 John Compton: change 230 00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:09.300 John Compton: and you're welcome to read that. I think they're currently available. I'm gonna try and make all of that stuff should be on the website, also dropbox 231 00:30:09.410 --> 00:30:14.649 John Compton: which will be in the if you don't. It was. It was already in the 232 00:30:14.710 --> 00:30:15.880 John Compton: in the 233 00:30:16.700 --> 00:30:20.400 John Compton: announcement of the public hearing. 234 00:30:20.600 --> 00:30:37.389 John Compton: But it will certainly be in the Bulletin for anyone to read the read the public comments, but there's there's either Bob or I see, Paula. Would you like to just briefly summarize what the suggestions were from your respective committees with regarding this. 235 00:30:39.260 --> 00:30:41.960 John Compton: Bob, why don't you go first? 236 00:30:42.360 --> 00:30:48.569 Robert Booher: Okay, yeah. There were 2 changes. 1 one is the there's the 237 00:30:48.790 --> 00:31:03.109 Robert Booher: detached. The adu has a limit of 800 square feet, and we were suggesting that the 8 attached, that it'd be that it be apply to to both types of 8 ad use the 800 square foot limit. 238 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:13.609 Robert Booher: It. The the reason being is, is. if it's if the the the sort of risk of of being out of scale. 239 00:31:14.230 --> 00:31:25.199 Robert Booher: The the actual addition, being out of scale is is similar, whether it's detached or or a attach. And there really should be a limit for for both types. 240 00:31:25.510 --> 00:31:35.190 Robert Booher: then the other. The other change was to enable the planning Commission to actually act on the recommendations that the 241 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:39.240 Robert Booher: Hpc. Provides in its review. 242 00:31:42.410 --> 00:31:44.510 John Compton: You mean to condition. 243 00:31:44.900 --> 00:31:51.879 John Compton: Yes, the condition. And adu. approach. It doesn't 244 00:31:52.800 --> 00:31:56.030 John Compton: somehow, you know, doesn't fit the 245 00:31:57.330 --> 00:32:04.460 John Compton: the character issues and and town issues right? It's mostly mostly dealing with scale, right? 246 00:32:04.600 --> 00:32:20.710 David Stopak: If I can, if I can add to that. So the the role that Hvc. Was was modeled after what we have in the subdivision regulations. And there there's a phrase which says that 247 00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:23.739 David Stopak: the planning Commission can condition 248 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:36.599 David Stopak: can make conditions based on on its authority to implement the master plan. So we've just copied that language for ad use, and that is what allows 249 00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:39.070 David Stopak: the planning commission to 250 00:32:39.780 --> 00:32:51.979 David Stopak: empowers them to to set conditions based on the master plan, and that so that can incorporate whatever the Hpc. Says. But it's actually broader than that, because it allows them to condition 251 00:32:52.590 --> 00:33:04.050 David Stopak: anything on the Master plan. Anything that's in the master plan having to do with this. So it gives the planning Commission more authority to deal with whatever problems come down the line with ad use. 252 00:33:07.050 --> 00:33:15.670 John Compton: So so I have a question about that. III didn't see in the proposed ordinance, where the planning Commission actually 253 00:33:17.080 --> 00:33:21.300 John Compton: entertains any of the adu applications. 254 00:33:21.530 --> 00:33:23.500 David Stopak: This is for building permits 255 00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:42.989 John Compton: this. Certainly, with building any building permit that still would go through the planning Commission license licensing is through Montgomery County, but certainly any building permits would have to go through the planning. Alright. So yeah, I see what you're saying. So any. The concern is 256 00:33:43.020 --> 00:33:44.940 John Compton: scale. 257 00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:52.299 John Compton: And since that which would become a reality if there was construction involved 258 00:33:52.700 --> 00:34:07.959 Robert Booher: beyond what the existing home looks like, whether it's an attached or detached, it would require construct right if it if it was entirely within the the home itself. Existing footprint. No problem, right? Footprint existing structure. 259 00:34:08.130 --> 00:34:11.120 David Stopak: Yeah, and that it would have to do with parking, too, by the way. 260 00:34:11.179 --> 00:34:17.080 David Stopak: So if there's if if there's a public ways permit involved, then then that would 261 00:34:17.310 --> 00:34:18.760 David Stopak: also applied there. 262 00:34:19.080 --> 00:34:22.289 Peter: Yes, that that requires an approval. 263 00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:23.239 Wreck! 264 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:29.079 Paula Puglisi: Understand how? 265 00:34:29.139 --> 00:34:44.550 Paula Puglisi: I, it seems to me like all that's already covered in the ordinance. and I don't understand why the PC. Would need a broader authority, and I also don't understand how that 266 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:50.049 Paula Puglisi: saying that it has to agree with the comprehensive plan 267 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:51.980 Paula Puglisi: means that 268 00:34:52.489 --> 00:35:04.139 Paula Puglisi: that an adu approval or building permit would be conditional on Hpc's recommendation. I don't understand the connection. Really 269 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:09.460 David Stopak: there's always already language there that 270 00:35:10.570 --> 00:35:12.040 David Stopak: that that 271 00:35:12.190 --> 00:35:15.419 David Stopak: I think it's 272 00:35:17.010 --> 00:35:19.020 David Stopak: think the language is is that 273 00:35:20.090 --> 00:35:33.369 David Stopak: it's I mean I'd have to pull out the language, but but there's language there's a condition in there for the ad use that they should follow the design guidelines of that that set by the Hpc. 274 00:35:33.680 --> 00:35:35.540 David Stopak: But 275 00:35:36.530 --> 00:35:44.589 David Stopak: the the planning commission on building permits doesn't usually mean it's and as advisory 276 00:35:44.870 --> 00:35:47.379 David Stopak: to the homeowner. 277 00:35:47.410 --> 00:35:52.160 David Stopak: But, for instance, in subdivision, when there's a subdivision. 278 00:35:52.290 --> 00:36:03.990 David Stopak: is when that authority for the master plan gets gets thrown in. So when we're just doing building permits, the the Hpc. Advise, has a has a 279 00:36:04.020 --> 00:36:06.770 David Stopak: has a review and 280 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:25.809 David Stopak: discusses it with the homeowner, basically, and and and gets the homeowner to comply with our suggestions or not right. And but the planning commission gets the review. But they're not able to set any conditions on that building permit, based on our recommendations. 281 00:36:26.710 --> 00:36:40.059 David Stopak: They don't have that authority. Why should they now, I mean, what's different I don't understand. Well, this is more like a subdivision, especially if you have. So it's not a subdivision, because it's subordinate. It's subordinate but separate structure. 282 00:36:40.420 --> 00:36:50.849 David Stopak: It well. the planning commission now has the possibility to look at, at, because basically. 283 00:36:50.870 --> 00:36:53.500 David Stopak: it's it's all a matter of scale. 284 00:36:53.950 --> 00:36:56.830 Paula Puglisi: There are already restrictions in place. 285 00:36:57.240 --> 00:37:08.400 Paula Puglisi: and if if you throw that in there wouldn't the planning Commission still have to have to know something very specific in the comprehensive plan that where there is no compliance. 286 00:37:08.570 --> 00:37:18.560 David Stopak: I mean, it seems to me like all that's already in. I just don't understand why it's needed. I don't. Well, basically we don't. We? Really, we're going into. 287 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.250 David Stopak: There's a potential for a lot of change here. 288 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:34.230 David Stopak: and we don't know what it is. So this is a protection for the town to make sure that change is going to be within the historic character of the town. If you have to go property by property. What will be possible? 289 00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:37.650 David Stopak: It's it's really hard to 290 00:37:37.730 --> 00:37:40.859 David Stopak: to figure it out. 291 00:37:40.890 --> 00:37:45.109 David Stopak: So this allows us to deal with with each property as it comes up. 292 00:37:46.130 --> 00:37:48.579 Paula Puglisi: but I don't know why you can't do that, anyway. 293 00:37:48.830 --> 00:37:54.939 Paula Puglisi: This just sounds dangerous to me to be honest and well, the other part is dangerous too. 294 00:37:55.150 --> 00:38:08.009 Paula Puglisi: Well, no, if there, I mean part of what suggesting is because the ordinance creates this whole new paradigm, that that we think there should be periodic review 295 00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:14.200 Paula Puglisi: that it's not. that it's a dynamic ordnance 296 00:38:14.230 --> 00:38:22.820 Paula Puglisi: that could be open to changes depending on kind of what comes up and what maybe is needed. 297 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:30.429 Paula Puglisi: Paula. This is a public hearing 298 00:38:30.740 --> 00:38:48.189 John Compton: per se. The wisdom of of the proposed modifications or amendments to the ordinance. The Council will be doing that, and then, of course, if if and when any changes are made 299 00:38:48.620 --> 00:38:53.709 John Compton: to the proposed. the planning commission proposal. 300 00:38:53.880 --> 00:39:02.420 John McClelland: then they'll all have to, we will we usually, if it's dramatic, or if it's controversial in the past, we have had another hearing 301 00:39:02.560 --> 00:39:06.880 John Compton: to ensure that we've heard what everybody thinks about the robots. 302 00:39:06.990 --> 00:39:21.039 John Compton: the revised ordinance. If it's small stuff, like, you know, we you change 800 to 1,000 or whatever. Then we barely go for another public hearing. But but 303 00:39:21.220 --> 00:39:23.250 John Compton: so let's leave the 304 00:39:24.990 --> 00:39:47.200 Peter: passion on both sides of that. It's helpful, because it gives us more of a balance when what we're trying to decide what to do. So this is, this is good. 305 00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:48.700 Peter: but you know 306 00:39:49.280 --> 00:40:00.969 Paula Puglisi: I don't know if the Hpc. Is finished, and if they are. Did you want me to say the 2 changes we suggested or not? Are you all finished? Okay. 307 00:40:01.070 --> 00:40:06.379 Paula Puglisi: alright. So I'm gonna read it. Just so I make sure I get it right, since I'm not just speaking for myself. 308 00:40:06.550 --> 00:40:11.879 Paula Puglisi: First. The definition of household is confusing in the ordinance 309 00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:20.589 Paula Puglisi: and the ordnance state that a person living alone, or anyone, the following groups living together as a single housekeeping unit 310 00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:25.159 Paula Puglisi: and sharing common cooking, sanitation, sleeping facility. 311 00:40:25.350 --> 00:40:33.339 Paula Puglisi: one, a household could be any number of people related by blood, marriage, adoption, or guardianship. 312 00:40:33.470 --> 00:40:37.140 Paula Puglisi: 2 up to 5. Unrelated people. 313 00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:38.770 Paula Puglisi: 4, 3 314 00:40:38.780 --> 00:40:46.939 Paula Puglisi: to unrelated people, and any children, parents sibling, or other persons related to either of them by blood or guardianship. 315 00:40:47.940 --> 00:41:04.650 Paula Puglisi: That was taken, I think you all put it from Government County, and what the race that comment was, but that modern households come in many forms due to economic constraints and cultural traditions and lifestyle, and to encourage and support cultural diversity, economic release 316 00:41:04.750 --> 00:41:10.719 Paula Puglisi: and lifestyle preference. We suggest a simplified definition of households 317 00:41:10.910 --> 00:41:12.040 Paula Puglisi: to be 318 00:41:12.130 --> 00:41:22.459 Paula Puglisi: a person living alone, or any group of people living together as a housekeeping unit and sharing common cooking, sanitation and sleeping facilities. 319 00:41:22.580 --> 00:41:26.219 Paula Puglisi: That's a suggestion for the definition of household. 320 00:41:26.630 --> 00:41:29.450 Peter: And the other suggestion. 321 00:41:29.750 --> 00:41:34.600 Paula Puglisi: is that the draft ordinance place is a limit of 2 occupants. 322 00:41:34.700 --> 00:41:36.279 Paula Puglisi: over 18 323 00:41:36.530 --> 00:41:40.120 Paula Puglisi: are allowed to reside in adu. 324 00:41:40.200 --> 00:41:45.399 Paula Puglisi: Yet 2 bedrooms are allowed, and this eliminates many arrangements. 325 00:41:45.660 --> 00:41:55.149 Paula Puglisi: such as a couple with an adult child with a disability or a couple and an adult friend, or a couple and a caretaker. Just as some examples 326 00:41:55.810 --> 00:42:04.130 Paula Puglisi: we suggest that the occupant, Steve occupancy requirements. or A. B used. be defined by the definition of households 327 00:42:04.170 --> 00:42:08.660 Paula Puglisi: rather than the number for occupants or an age limit. 328 00:42:09.740 --> 00:42:14.949 Paula Puglisi: and we, I already talked about the periodic reviews that we suggested. 329 00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:23.870 John Compton: okay, well, while we have some planning commission members here, maybe 330 00:42:24.130 --> 00:42:27.970 John Compton: maybe you can comment on the 18 year old 331 00:42:27.990 --> 00:42:32.639 John Compton: was that was that the 2 18 year olds was that was that from the counties 332 00:42:33.230 --> 00:42:34.350 John Compton: ordinance. 333 00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:35.790 Peter: Hmm. 334 00:42:36.390 --> 00:42:37.150 John Compton: alright. 335 00:42:37.290 --> 00:42:38.020 Paula Puglisi: hmm! 336 00:42:38.570 --> 00:42:42.339 Georgette Cole: We we felt that was something that the Council ought to decide. 337 00:42:42.510 --> 00:42:46.689 Peter: In fact, the definition of household and the 338 00:42:46.830 --> 00:42:49.770 Georgette Cole: number of occupants 339 00:42:49.780 --> 00:43:02.670 Georgette Cole: the Planning Commission felt that this was not something that we usually make a determination of. So we put in the Montgomery County language, expecting that the Council would decide best way to handle it. 340 00:43:05.010 --> 00:43:12.719 John Compton: Yes, okay, that's I mean, I could show the ordinance. It does have the Council 341 00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:20.230 John Compton: as Georgette just alluded to that. They they just took the Montgomery County 342 00:43:20.670 --> 00:43:26.619 John Compton: language, and felt it was the Council's business to 343 00:43:26.710 --> 00:43:32.070 John Compton: review that or change it, and they were not going to propose it. So 344 00:43:32.870 --> 00:43:34.120 John Compton: thank you. 345 00:43:35.790 --> 00:43:49.509 John McClelland: John John. I'm sorry. Sorry. I just interject something on a Montgomery County reason for that. The reason they have that is so that it is an accessory dwelling unit. 346 00:43:49.570 --> 00:43:53.299 John McClelland: and they're not making it into multifamily units. 347 00:43:53.320 --> 00:44:03.389 John McClelland: And that's why there's a differentiation between the definition of a household and the people within it. At least, that's what somebody said from Montgomery County to me. 348 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:12.589 John Compton: Okay, that doesn't make a lot of sense right now. 349 00:44:13.080 --> 00:44:14.170 John Compton: But 350 00:44:15.330 --> 00:44:19.799 John Compton: I mean, we're you're adding one more unit to a structure 351 00:44:20.790 --> 00:44:26.940 John Compton: multi-family doesn't even come into it. It's not even part of the 352 00:44:27.530 --> 00:44:31.310 John Compton: discussion. So why would anybody need to 353 00:44:32.530 --> 00:44:37.839 John Compton: distinguish it from multi-family. I mean, there's just no multi family, anyway. Okay. 354 00:44:38.470 --> 00:44:48.810 John McClelland: that would be a question from Montgomery County, John. I was just expressing what they said to me to get clarification when I read this before tonight's meeting. Thank you. 355 00:44:50.860 --> 00:44:51.540 John Compton: It's 356 00:44:51.970 --> 00:44:59.329 Peter: okay. Well, alright, let's go on to any other we have. 357 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:01.460 We have 358 00:45:01.680 --> 00:45:10.119 Craig: the Englishes would like to speak to the testimonial part of tonight's meeting. 359 00:45:10.160 --> 00:45:13.590 Craig: Is this a good time for that? 360 00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:15.439 Kathy Lehman: You're on. 361 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:28.160 Craig: Craig? And I already have submitted a letter of explanation and a floor plan and a exterior picture 362 00:45:28.310 --> 00:45:35.940 Craig: to the town, and it can be found on the town's website in the materials on this topic. 363 00:45:36.380 --> 00:45:40.409 Craig: Oh, so please take a look at that if you haven't seen it. 364 00:45:40.610 --> 00:46:00.750 Craig: But basically we've lived here for more than 48 years, added a couple different additions to our house. And now, that our children are in their forties! Our house is too large for us, and unless we can establish another 365 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:15.209 Craig: source of income will be forced to move because of the cost of living. Here we have the kind of addition that is perfect. For that middle example of the already attached 366 00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:26.500 Craig: 2 bedroom, one bath, little living room wing that is, on the part of our house that is closest to the town maintenance shed. 367 00:46:27.270 --> 00:46:35.780 Craig: We built it 35, 34 years ago, and we think it will be perfect to 368 00:46:36.100 --> 00:46:39.420 Craig: make it an little apartment. 369 00:46:39.930 --> 00:47:00.309 Craig: Yeah, for those of you who who don't know us. Maybe a couple of people. Our houses at the end of Center Street addressed Maple Avenue on the same Center Street, near the the maintenance shed big brown house 370 00:47:00.340 --> 00:47:01.860 Craig: and 371 00:47:02.020 --> 00:47:08.920 Craig: we built a addition for our girls, as Mary Loud said 34 years ago, and 372 00:47:09.020 --> 00:47:12.619 Craig: it would be a perfect ad u 373 00:47:12.670 --> 00:47:14.830 Craig: with very little. 374 00:47:14.980 --> 00:47:24.990 Craig: work, we can change it into a rentable apartment, and we won't alter the house in any way 375 00:47:25.020 --> 00:47:31.339 Craig: from the way it is now other than other than at a front door. And 376 00:47:31.460 --> 00:47:51.560 Craig: so this this issue is is very relevant for us. Because, I guess it all start started precipitating in our heads when we got our county tax bill this year. And it just yeah, not just about knocked our socks off. 377 00:47:51.610 --> 00:47:58.809 Craig: And Marilyn is not working anymore. And my business, after more than 50 years, having my 378 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:24.920 Craig: studio and and working here in Washington growth is starting to wind down a little bit. So we really need the extra income, and we don't want to go anywhere we love. We love Washington growth. We love our neighbors. We've been so blessed to be in a a wonderful community. As you all know, this is just a great place to live, and and we want to continue to to live here, and having an adu would make that possible for us. 379 00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:34.839 Craig: We could have monthly rent checks coming in that would supplement our income in a way that would really help us out a lot, and 380 00:48:35.550 --> 00:48:38.790 Craig: we want to follow all the rules and regulations. 381 00:48:38.990 --> 00:49:06.530 Craig: We also are happy to be a test case. If there's such a thing anyone's welcome to come and see what we wanna do what we have done, what we inspect and what have you? But according to everything that we read, we meet the requirements in terms of space and room to park, plenty of the appropriate number of cars in the driveway, and so forth. 382 00:49:07.370 --> 00:49:11.109 Christine Dibble: II have a question for you Craig and Mary Lou, do you know. 383 00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:14.360 Christine Dibble: I mean, I've seen the diagram. 384 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:22.310 Christine Dibble: square feet, those 2 bedrooms, and the living area little over 500 square feet. 385 00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:27.340 John McClelland: It's well within any number we're talking about. 386 00:49:34.700 --> 00:49:39.519 Craig: Okay, any other questions for us? 387 00:49:39.670 --> 00:49:44.790 Peter: When when we go over to inspect, probably on the weekly basis, what will you be serving 388 00:49:45.190 --> 00:49:49.990 Craig: for you, popcorn. 389 00:49:50.180 --> 00:49:57.890 Craig: There's plenty of ice cream to be found. 390 00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.320 John Compton: Okay, actually. 391 00:50:01.770 --> 00:50:04.250 John Compton: that I'm going to suspend the 392 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:14.409 John Compton: public hearing just for a moment you mentioned your reassessment. We got hours as well, waiting, just waiting a few weeks to find out how many people got them. 393 00:50:14.580 --> 00:50:17.910 John Compton: but ours was an astonishingly 394 00:50:18.560 --> 00:50:22.080 Peter: I. It was 33% 395 00:50:22.090 --> 00:50:29.020 John Compton: of which all of that was on the structure. So it was 50% 396 00:50:29.300 --> 00:50:34.300 John Compton: increase in the structure. No increase in the land value. 397 00:50:34.730 --> 00:50:36.669 John Compton: It was quite 398 00:50:37.350 --> 00:50:39.520 John Compton: a substantial 399 00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:46.509 thing. So anybody who I'm gonna kind of I'll eventually get on the email and ask others what what they're seeing. But 400 00:50:46.830 --> 00:50:49.559 John Compton: I'm just wondering whether it was just us or 401 00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:57.960 Craig: neighbors as well. We. We shared our assessment with our daughter, who's now living in Los Angeles. and she laughed at us 402 00:50:58.130 --> 00:51:22.029 Craig: twice as much twice as that's not the point. The percentage we don't. I. We don't have that information in front of us right now. But the percentage of increase is the biggest jump in 40 years or 48 years. To be exact. 403 00:51:24.540 --> 00:51:28.870 John Compton: Okay, back to the public hearing. Thank you 404 00:51:29.140 --> 00:51:34.940 John Compton: for those comments. So, John Nicole, you ready to you, want to 405 00:51:37.390 --> 00:51:42.870 John Compton: take a break? 406 00:51:43.090 --> 00:51:44.830 John Compton: You care to 407 00:51:44.930 --> 00:51:48.400 John Compton: make a oral contribution beyond or 408 00:51:48.430 --> 00:51:50.360 Kathy Lehman: including what you wrote. 409 00:51:50.870 --> 00:52:03.800 John McClelland: yes. Well, yeah. And I know I submitted the one letter back on October fourth. And I'm glad it finally got put up on the website earlier today. But I added to it a little bit, and 410 00:52:04.410 --> 00:52:13.919 John McClelland: what I've heard here is, I think there has to be a very clear distinction between an adu and a DADU, 411 00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:24.799 John McClelland: and that's a detached so accessory dwelling unit. And the reason I've spoken to a lot of people in town. 412 00:52:25.060 --> 00:52:35.090 John McClelland: and everybody just like with what the English is proposed. I don't think anybody has an issue with that type of a 413 00:52:35.210 --> 00:52:41.439 John McClelland: use on the property, especially when you talk you take into consideration 414 00:52:41.670 --> 00:52:48.149 John McClelland: the purpose for setbacks. So, in other words, you have these setbacks to protect from light. 415 00:52:48.200 --> 00:53:00.349 John McClelland: sound, odour fumes, I mean chimney, if somebody smokes, etc. And all of a sudden, now you're allowing a detached adu, or potentially allowing 416 00:53:00.570 --> 00:53:04.169 John McClelland: to violate all of those setback requirements. 417 00:53:04.490 --> 00:53:17.240 John McClelland: so it it raises a serious question as to why would a detached dwelling unit have far less setback requirements than a primary structure? 418 00:53:18.050 --> 00:53:26.550 John McClelland: It doesn't make any sense. And so the the adu. If it's inside of the premises. 419 00:53:26.630 --> 00:53:41.069 John McClelland: I think it meets all the other requirements that we've really been hearing here tonight, as far as an in-law suite. You need some medical assistance on some of their 24, 7. You just want rental income, etc. 420 00:53:41.290 --> 00:53:44.680 John McClelland: And to step outside of that box 421 00:53:44.720 --> 00:53:53.490 John McClelland: is where we're starting to hear a lot of these other concerns. I would also express that if I have a detached garage wow! 422 00:53:54.050 --> 00:54:10.629 John McClelland: I just have to enclose it. Now I have A, DADU. And I basically put put my parking spaces and clear off a big section of my yard next to it, and just make that into a parking land, which also, I think, kind of offsets 423 00:54:11.170 --> 00:54:23.779 John McClelland: a lot of what the environmental I don't know what we call that committee in Washington Grove looking out for the environment. What do we call it? The Green Committee, or something? I don't know. 424 00:54:24.010 --> 00:54:27.230 John McClelland: But you also look at a detached dwelling unit. 425 00:54:27.550 --> 00:54:32.399 the amount of energy they're going to use from heat air conditioning just living 426 00:54:32.650 --> 00:54:36.600 John McClelland: because it's in a detached unit. So 427 00:54:37.060 --> 00:54:43.999 to me. I just want to express I'm in full support of the adu. As long as it's within the primary structure 428 00:54:44.050 --> 00:54:52.190 John McClelland: I have major concern. If it's a detached dwelling unit, because I haven't heard a good reason for it. 429 00:54:53.680 --> 00:54:55.800 John McClelland: Number one, and then number 2, 430 00:54:55.870 --> 00:55:11.680 I'll bring up the commercial corner. You have no idea what you're getting into. If you think you're going to have mixed residential commercial use up here at the commercial corner. Apparently somebody in the town has been talking with the landlord 431 00:55:11.720 --> 00:55:22.889 because she has an architect up here that's already redesigning the building and potentially putting on apartments under the flat section of the back of this structure. 432 00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:27.909 I think she's contemplating up to 8 apartment units. 433 00:55:28.180 --> 00:55:32.529 John McClelland: so I don't think we have the capacity 434 00:55:32.690 --> 00:55:50.500 or the structure to do it. I think it would be grossly unfair to the neighboring residents to be looking at the back of that on the structure. So from the commercial area, I would recommend that that should be completely removed. 435 00:55:50.670 --> 00:56:03.029 John McClelland: from the section. And then in my letter, II went through the different sections that just basically delete the DADU. But keep the rest of it pretty much intact. 436 00:56:05.470 --> 00:56:13.859 John McClelland: And then one last question I'd have for the Hpc. And the planning commission, you say, like this, 800 square foot living space. 437 00:56:14.050 --> 00:56:18.050 What are you going to do about the units that already exist 438 00:56:18.680 --> 00:56:21.009 John McClelland: that exceed that square footage. 439 00:56:26.120 --> 00:56:31.240 John McClelland: IE. The apartment on Brown Street, right across the back side of where I live. 440 00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:36.529 Bill, I believe, is I forget. His last name is the new owner, Joel Kirchho apartment. 441 00:56:37.120 --> 00:56:43.940 John McClelland: If it's over 800 square feet, what are you gonna do? You can't grandfather it. 442 00:56:49.540 --> 00:56:52.260 John McClelland: anyway. Just thought just some thoughts. 443 00:56:54.570 --> 00:56:58.919 John Compton: I'm sure you didn't expect an answer, John, but that's a it's a question. 444 00:56:58.950 --> 00:57:03.910 John McClelland: Well, yeah. And as far as enforcement is concerned. 445 00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:28.739 John McClelland: John, you know there's been a be up. My bee high for a long time is you've got an art studio across the hall that's in direct violation that we've known about. It's nothing's been done. I actually lost a service rep who couldn't take defumes. And now that person is actually residing up here, and this is her primary residence for the past 2 to 3 months. 446 00:57:29.230 --> 00:57:34.660 John McClelland: So if we're gonna start enforcing things, I'd love to see it because it's been killing my business. 447 00:57:41.130 --> 00:57:44.810 John McClelland: That's it. Unless somebody has a question for me. 448 00:57:47.040 --> 00:57:50.369 John Compton: Anyone have a question for John, since he's 449 00:57:50.580 --> 00:57:52.569 John Compton: he's made a very 450 00:57:53.070 --> 00:57:55.919 John Compton: specific proposals. 451 00:57:56.090 --> 00:58:13.610 John Compton: well, he's made some comments about the commercial corner. I mean III read the ordinance carefully, look to me like it allowed for an ad. You and the commercial corner certainly didn't allow for 8. So I think we're referring to was a change in use 452 00:58:13.980 --> 00:58:21.129 John Compton: which is a totally separate from me. You know this is accessory dwelling 453 00:58:21.340 --> 00:58:34.629 Peter: and is, is not the issue the issue your your you raise, John, is a change in the uses at the at the commercial corner. Yeah, John, if you call me, I can give you. Yeah, I can, John. I can give you not 454 00:58:34.630 --> 00:58:52.199 Peter: Compton, John Mcclellan. I can give you an update on what's going on over there with the architects and everything that's really really secondary to my concern about the detached dwelling unit which 455 00:58:52.280 --> 00:59:11.700 John McClelland: and I've spoken to about 10 or 12 people in town. I've got a big consensus over a lot of people feel the same way, and I'm encouraging them to send things in but they're concerned to do so for different reasons that this isn't the Forum to discuss right now. But. 456 00:59:12.090 --> 00:59:13.130 John McClelland: anyway. 457 00:59:16.170 --> 00:59:19.170 Robert Gilmore: isn't this the Forum to discuss. 458 00:59:20.030 --> 00:59:30.940 Robert Gilmore: I mean, if people in town we we as town council, John W. Want to know. II I'll I don't want to speak for everyone, but I I'd like to know concerns about 459 00:59:31.070 --> 00:59:39.129 Robert Gilmore: the the the amendment to the the zoning, and if 460 00:59:39.150 --> 00:59:43.810 Robert Gilmore: Some of those concerns are like they don't think that they can 461 00:59:43.890 --> 00:59:51.980 Robert Gilmore: express their view because it's unpopular or or whatever II mean, I'd like to know? And 462 00:59:52.510 --> 01:00:13.719 Robert Gilmore: I think it's important for us, because that I think that we need to make a holistic decision on this. And certainly the fact that you have a wide variety of different groups weighing in with with different, you know, concerns from a variety of different 463 01:00:14.090 --> 01:00:17.700 Robert Gilmore: a. you know kind of aspects of this issue of 464 01:00:17.770 --> 01:00:31.609 Robert Gilmore: of housing and the accessibility of housing environmental concerns, historic preservation concerns. I mean, there are lots of different ways for that that this could impact our our 465 01:00:31.900 --> 01:00:37.179 Robert Gilmore: our life and the character of the town, and I'd hate to think that people feel like they. 466 01:00:37.290 --> 01:00:46.959 Robert Gilmore: You know, kind of can't express their views on any number of the different dimensions that that this proposal impacts. 467 01:00:47.830 --> 01:00:59.020 John McClelland: Yeah, II mean, I don't want to speak for a lot of people. The one thing I mean it came up was, and like I said, I don't know if this is really the time or the place to do it was they expressed, 468 01:00:59.240 --> 01:01:08.120 John Compton: potential kickback or and and respectfully rob you know, hypothetical 469 01:01:08.830 --> 01:01:26.670 John Compton: really enough to worry about, to discuss on real issues that are really sitting in front of us, when, when and if somebody proposes some change at the commercial corner, or proposes discussing it even 470 01:01:26.670 --> 01:01:41.540 Robert Gilmore: then then would be absolutely the right time to. Oh, I'm I don't give you. I'm I'm sorry. Maybe anybody from expressing opinions on that. 471 01:01:41.650 --> 01:01:45.940 John Compton: That aren't issues yet. 472 01:01:46.050 --> 01:01:54.320 Robert Gilmore: is we just don't have the bandwidth to do it. No, no, no, I I'm I wasn't tonight. We don't. Okay, can you? 473 01:01:54.730 --> 01:02:07.090 Robert Gilmore: Are you able to hear me? I wasn't suggesting that some point. 474 01:02:07.710 --> 01:02:10.660 Robert Gilmore: I was not suggesting that we talk about the commercial corner. 475 01:02:10.740 --> 01:02:28.099 Robert Gilmore: II thought that John made a comment that there are a number of people in town that he's spoken with, who have concerns about the the zoning amendment. I did have something, but II was letting Robert finish. 476 01:02:28.530 --> 01:02:30.040 John Compton: Yeah. 477 01:02:30.900 --> 01:02:37.259 Robert Gilmore: for some reason you're unmuted, but we can't hear you. 478 01:02:37.530 --> 01:02:47.130 Peter: I can't hear anybody. Barbara. You're off. 479 01:02:47.420 --> 01:03:08.640 Robert Gilmore: That might be. Donna might be a you issue 480 01:03:08.930 --> 01:03:10.870 detached eightyus 481 01:03:11.450 --> 01:03:14.179 Joan Mahaffey: and a lot of people have garages. 482 01:03:14.630 --> 01:03:19.979 Joan Mahaffey: But what are the setback requirements for converting a garage into an A. DU. 483 01:03:27.930 --> 01:03:29.720 Peter: Georgia, you're not going to answer that 484 01:03:32.930 --> 01:03:35.490 Peter: you're muted. Yeah. 485 01:03:38.550 --> 01:03:45.540 Peter: So it's an accessory dwelling unit. And so if you look in, if you look in the ordinances. those have not changed. 486 01:03:48.430 --> 01:03:52.400 Peter: As John said in the beginning the the setbacks have not changed. 487 01:03:52.630 --> 01:03:54.700 Joan Mahaffey: So what's the 488 01:03:55.710 --> 01:03:59.680 Joan Mahaffey: My garage was obviously built before there were setbacks. 489 01:03:59.930 --> 01:04:02.880 So what's the current setback for a garage. 490 01:04:03.110 --> 01:04:05.580 Peter: Well, it depends on you. Yeah. 491 01:04:05.640 --> 01:04:09.470 Barbara: Yeah. It depends on the on the plot. There's a section of 492 01:04:09.580 --> 01:04:24.520 Barbara: San schedule of standards in our ordinances, and that's what's referenced in the zoning text amendment. And you can just look it up from there. Yeah. 493 01:04:24.690 --> 01:04:26.890 Joan Mahaffey: okay, what is it? Where is it? Again? 494 01:04:27.040 --> 01:04:29.260 Barbara: Section 9 of. 495 01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:33.080 Barbara: I guess that's 496 01:04:33.130 --> 01:04:38.829 Peter: okay of Article 7, section 9 standards. 497 01:04:39.710 --> 01:04:42.070 Joan Mahaffey: Yeah. Okay. My second concern 498 01:04:42.220 --> 01:04:44.119 II had asked for now 499 01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:48.199 Joan Mahaffey: during one of the planning commission meetings. How many. 500 01:04:48.660 --> 01:04:50.200 Joan Mahaffey: how many properties 501 01:04:50.290 --> 01:04:58.170 Joan Mahaffey: would be effected by this? And they said that wasn't their job, that that would come upon the Town Council was considering the ordinance. 502 01:04:58.180 --> 01:05:02.569 Joan Mahaffey: How do we get an estimate of how many properties we're talking about in Western growth? 503 01:05:05.860 --> 01:05:11.129 Peter: What's the relevance of that question for us to do that to see, because if the 504 01:05:11.870 --> 01:05:17.460 Joan Mahaffey: to see what the the potential would be for changing the town with 505 01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:19.850 with detached abus 506 01:05:20.090 --> 01:05:22.770 Peter: just detached or attached and detached. 507 01:05:22.790 --> 01:05:26.679 Joan Mahaffey: I'm I'm mostly concerned about the detached. 508 01:05:31.070 --> 01:05:42.560 Robert Gilmore: What is Joan? Is the is your question. Do do? Does the planning commission or the town itself know how many properties 509 01:05:42.690 --> 01:05:50.809 Robert Gilmore: are potentially eligible to have a detached adu built on it under the the 510 01:05:50.890 --> 01:05:53.240 Robert Gilmore: parameters of the amendment. 511 01:05:53.460 --> 01:05:54.680 Exactly. 512 01:05:55.570 --> 01:06:00.269 Robert Gilmore: That. That's a good question, does the planning commission know? 513 01:06:00.580 --> 01:06:01.760 Peter: No. 514 01:06:04.420 --> 01:06:08.770 Christine Dibble: I don't know how we could, how we could do that, because. 515 01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:12.949 Christine Dibble: you know, Tiny, you could have a tiny house that's a hundred square feet 516 01:06:12.990 --> 01:06:26.640 Christine Dibble: 10 by 10, and mean, that could fit in a lot of places. But a house that small. It's not going to appeal to many people. 517 01:06:26.840 --> 01:06:29.020 Christine Dibble: So you know, I 518 01:06:29.520 --> 01:06:36.030 Christine Dibble: I saw, I think, Joe Clark asked that same question, and I think it's a good question. 519 01:06:36.310 --> 01:06:42.829 Christine Dibble: But I just don't know. Even if we attempted to try to answer it. II don't know 520 01:06:43.200 --> 01:06:45.280 Robert Gilmore: how we would answer it. Yeah. 521 01:06:46.600 --> 01:06:53.949 Paula Puglisi: Is it true that most of the properties that would be allowed to have 522 01:06:53.980 --> 01:06:56.330 Paula Puglisi: detached A. D use 523 01:06:56.480 --> 01:07:00.299 Paula Puglisi: could also subdivide if they chose to do so. 524 01:07:01.570 --> 01:07:03.070 John McClelland: Hmm! No. 525 01:07:03.200 --> 01:07:10.990 Paula Puglisi: I don't know, because I don't know, I mean, which is worse if 526 01:07:11.020 --> 01:07:12.660 Paula Puglisi: I don't know if that's true. 527 01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:13.500 Hmm. 528 01:07:13.940 --> 01:07:21.869 Paula Puglisi: just. I sort of eyeballed it when when I was looking at this in the RR. 2 zone. 529 01:07:22.100 --> 01:07:32.340 David Stopak: you can have a lot of a lot of the houses could have detached ad use, I would say over half, probably 60% of the RR. 2 zone 530 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:51.389 David Stopak: subdivisions. No, it is an issue. There's a lot of it. Could I mean? That's what I that's why, I think 531 01:07:51.570 --> 01:07:56.660 David Stopak: having the safeguards in place with the H. 2 C. And the planning Commission 532 01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.779 David Stopak: being able to 533 01:07:59.240 --> 01:08:08.370 David Stopak: comment and enforce conditions having to do with historic integrity and and character is really a safeguard. 534 01:08:08.430 --> 01:08:17.889 David Stopak: Because there is a potential especially. And I think John is is right about that. John Mcclellan is right. There is a large potential 535 01:08:17.910 --> 01:08:21.189 David Stopak: for detached ad use in the R. 2 zone. 536 01:08:21.220 --> 01:08:32.440 David Stopak: But again, we don't know how many people are going to want to do it. It could be a positive change, it it might not necessarily be negative, and I think with the change 537 01:08:33.200 --> 01:08:36.359 David Stopak: that we have in there, and and the way that it's written 538 01:08:36.540 --> 01:08:43.040 David Stopak: there are safe. There's there are safeguards that we can go down this road 539 01:08:43.050 --> 01:08:52.109 David Stopak: and being able be able to deal with it and maintain the historic character of the town. But I think we need to have all the safeguards in place. 540 01:08:52.410 --> 01:09:01.969 David Stopak: To be able to do that. And if it turns out that it's not working out you know, we're gonna have to stop it. But II think it's. 541 01:09:03.069 --> 01:09:07.299 David Stopak: I think this ZTA. Does have those safeguards in place. 542 01:09:10.630 --> 01:09:33.229 David Stopak: but I don't think we should minimize. I don't think we should minimize the potential for change. Here, there's a huge potential for change, but it depends on how people adopt it. And we have no idea if people are gonna run and do this, or they're not. We don't know. But I mean, that's why we have the 800 square foot minimum in place that that really helps it a lot. 543 01:09:33.859 --> 01:09:35.120 David Stopak: And it's 544 01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:39.029 David Stopak: 800 square feet is the maximum. But 545 01:09:39.060 --> 01:09:47.200 David Stopak: but there's 3 other conditions. There's a percentage of the lot. And there's also a percentage of the. 546 01:09:47.740 --> 01:09:57.219 David Stopak: you know, there's there's 3 conditions, and it's whatever is least is what's allowed. So 800 is not going to be allowed on all properties. 547 01:09:57.540 --> 01:10:00.459 Paula Puglisi: Yeah, that's in the ordinance. Yeah. Hmm. 548 01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:14.050 Peter: and you know, 80 users have been around for a long time now in a lot of states. And so it's not like, it's not like we're guessing what's gonna happen. We can look at other communities. And we've seen it hasn't been such a huge impact right now. 549 01:10:15.080 --> 01:10:24.040 John Compton: so I can't give you the exact percentage. But it's pretty small. How many people actually take advantage of 550 01:10:24.530 --> 01:10:27.940 John Compton: much, much less than they had had 551 01:10:28.010 --> 01:10:36.789 John Compton: predicted even for the beginning of the of the of the ability to have ideas. Say, it wouldn't accelerate 552 01:10:37.010 --> 01:10:44.479 John Compton: might that could happen in Washington. I just wanted to comment that you know David summed it up pretty well 553 01:10:44.510 --> 01:10:55.910 John Compton: that we don't know how th this sort of opportunity would be. How residents would utilize this sort of opportunity. 554 01:10:55.930 --> 01:11:12.289 John Compton: whether it would be along the lines of the English is already expressed, where they're looking to stay in their home, and would like an additional income and have the ability to have that that ad 555 01:11:12.360 --> 01:11:15.960 John Compton: and have their primary resonance. 556 01:11:15.980 --> 01:11:25.309 John Compton: How many would be wanting to expand so that the those family members couldn't could have additional family members. Stay. 557 01:11:25.320 --> 01:11:30.860 John Compton: it's it would. So so there we there's total uncertainty, a lot of uncertainty. 558 01:11:31.040 --> 01:11:34.349 John Compton: But the rate of uptake of this. 559 01:11:35.400 --> 01:11:43.270 John Compton: even a yeah. Call it a pessimistic, which would be a lot of them 560 01:11:43.420 --> 01:11:59.840 John Compton: isn't going to be very quickly. It will be measured and maybe accelerating, but nevertheless it will be measured and like with anything the town has enabled that we can unenable it, or we can alter it. 561 01:12:00.040 --> 01:12:03.550 John Compton: So one of the possibilities for this 562 01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:18.480 John Compton: Gta is to build in the recommendation that the the, if they are absolutely, positively, and let me just pick a time. Period, 5 years and examination of the 563 01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:32.170 John Compton: You know the utilization of ad use in town in 5 years, which, of course, the idea being that, how is it working? And do we need to make any alterations? Since we're in total control 564 01:12:32.420 --> 01:12:45.290 John Compton: or small town, we can easily adapt this sort of thing where there are. as David pointed out. you know, uncertainties there could be unforeseen consequences. 565 01:12:45.370 --> 01:13:00.259 John Compton: John John Mccollins, concerned about, you know concerned about. the character of the residential neighborhood. If there were more accessory dwelling, I mean accessory buildings that are ad use built. 566 01:13:01.160 --> 01:13:07.060 John Compton: you know. What would that do to neighbor neighbor, you know? A 567 01:13:07.250 --> 01:13:10.760 John Compton: attractive 568 01:13:10.890 --> 01:13:13.840 John Compton: situation. So you know, but 569 01:13:14.060 --> 01:13:16.270 John Compton: like a lot of good things. 570 01:13:16.340 --> 01:13:18.819 John Compton: if we can predict the future 571 01:13:18.860 --> 01:13:20.810 John Compton: with clarity. 572 01:13:20.850 --> 01:13:29.229 John Compton: We we would be a lot more comfortable making changes. And that explains why 573 01:13:29.250 --> 01:13:33.289 John Compton: make changes. People resist change because 574 01:13:33.320 --> 01:13:40.029 John Compton: of the uncertainty and fear of what that change means in our case. 575 01:13:40.250 --> 01:13:44.419 John Compton: it. It doesn't mean that we have. 576 01:13:44.490 --> 01:13:50.299 John Compton: You know. We have made a deal with the devil, and we can't get out of it because we can. 577 01:13:50.460 --> 01:13:52.669 John Compton: We could. 578 01:13:53.030 --> 01:13:57.840 John Compton: And it's it. It seems like that provision. 579 01:13:58.740 --> 01:14:06.450 John Compton: just like the bike path. By the way, if the bike path causes serious problems, we can change the way that bike path 580 01:14:06.700 --> 01:14:22.739 John Compton: is is is impacting the town cause. We can control entry to the town. We can control our own zoning orders. So I don't mean to. I mean, all these considerations are valuable and important to go in eyes open. 581 01:14:23.290 --> 01:14:29.250 John Compton: But but maybe the goal is worth the uncertainty of the 582 01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:31.520 John Compton: of the unforeseen 583 01:14:31.950 --> 01:14:32.810 consequences. 584 01:14:34.270 --> 01:15:01.379 John McClelland: Donna, I don't want to throw a little bit of cold water on your speech there. But for 18 years we've had an illegal apartment above a garage right across the street from me, and nothing was done. Nothing was changed. They knew it was an offense, and then I was told. For last 5 years me and some other neighbors were waiting for a triggering effect by the planning commission, and we won't let the next people do it. 585 01:15:01.400 --> 01:15:18.799 So when the property was changing hands just recently I talked to the planning commission, and they said, John, we can't do anything. Yeah. We said something about the triggering mechanism, but we're working on Avus, and that's going to be a moot point, anyway. 586 01:15:18.830 --> 01:15:30.799 So I hear you. When you say you can change at any time we can enforce things. We can do this, but the sad reality is that is really not an accurate statement. 587 01:15:32.570 --> 01:15:37.239 John McClelland: Well, I definitely, I'm just gonna stay. And I'm just gonna be specific with the adu. 588 01:15:39.550 --> 01:15:43.790 John Compton: You're you're citing our regulations, which, frankly. 589 01:15:44.980 --> 01:15:49.450 John Compton: in my careful reading of them, are virtually unenforceable. 590 01:15:49.930 --> 01:16:02.410 John Compton: So you are asking for an enforcement of something which I believe is probably unenforceable. Fortunately, we don't have it all over town. We do have some examples where 591 01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:06.580 John Compton: you know that that the intent has been flouted. 592 01:16:06.990 --> 01:16:15.879 John Compton: The the good news is that this adu proposal will deal with that property for sure. 593 01:16:16.550 --> 01:16:18.680 John Compton: Okay, 594 01:16:18.710 --> 01:16:23.909 John McClelland: it would if it it would. If 595 01:16:24.660 --> 01:16:31.619 John McClelland: if it is an adu that's attached to the primary structure, which means they would have to 596 01:16:31.620 --> 01:16:59.529 John McClelland: cause. They skirted the issue with a breeze way, and I don't want to go down that path many, many years ago, but they would have to enclose that to make that attach. And that's one of the reasons why I would not want again. II do not like to detach Unit versus within the unit, because it meets all the concerns like that the English is proposed, and that I've heard from just about every person that wrote in a a support for it. 597 01:17:00.330 --> 01:17:10.209 John McClelland: Basically, if it's part of the primary structure, it really really fits our ordinances and the structure of the town without upsetting the horse cart. 598 01:17:11.380 --> 01:17:12.210 Paula Puglisi: Hmm. 599 01:17:12.800 --> 01:17:13.740 Peter: okay. 600 01:17:14.670 --> 01:17:16.229 John McClelland: anyway, that's it. 601 01:17:19.160 --> 01:17:20.020 Bob. 602 01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:29.039 Robert Booher: Yeah, there's that. Not continuing on that conversation. But I? It was 603 01:17:29.800 --> 01:17:35.020 Robert Booher: it was good I don't know how many people were able to attend any of the State. 604 01:17:35.050 --> 01:17:44.180 Robert Booher: Webinars on this, but the State tax task force is going forward with with their investigation. 605 01:17:44.200 --> 01:17:54.680 Robert Booher: And if you noticed they are headed towards having, it appears as though they're headed towards having a state ordinance. 606 01:17:54.940 --> 01:18:05.120 Robert Booher: and if we don't have a a local ordinance, then the State ordinance would take precedence. If that was the case. So I think it's probably important that we 607 01:18:05.300 --> 01:18:15.349 Robert Booher: have a local ordinance one way or the other, whatever it is that we don't get preempted by by whatever the State feels we should be doing. 608 01:18:15.400 --> 01:18:18.649 Robert Booher: In the the State. 609 01:18:18.970 --> 01:18:27.010 Robert Booher: the States position is is actually to be to to maximize the enabling of of the agen use. 610 01:18:27.030 --> 01:18:28.140 Robert Booher: But 611 01:18:28.550 --> 01:18:40.149 Robert Booher: the most of the of the possibility around the State don't aren't actually dealing with historic districts. So there there. Other considerations in a historic district that 612 01:18:40.280 --> 01:18:46.990 Robert Booher: are not not necessarily being taken care of. So the other 613 01:18:47.090 --> 01:18:48.090 Robert Booher: points 614 01:18:48.240 --> 01:18:52.799 Robert Booher: from from looking at that there are many 615 01:18:53.080 --> 01:18:55.520 Robert Booher: jurisdictions that require owner 616 01:18:55.570 --> 01:19:02.589 Robert Booher: occupancy of the primary dwelling. This, apparently we have not said that that's a requirement. 617 01:19:02.700 --> 01:19:09.290 Robert Booher: negatives reading reading the literature about 618 01:19:09.330 --> 01:19:11.770 Robert Booher: not having an owner. No owner. 619 01:19:12.260 --> 01:19:14.049 Occupancy requirement 620 01:19:14.130 --> 01:19:26.359 Robert Booher: is that potentially a developer could come along and buy a property, and and essentially they have 2 round units that are that are there, and that's sort of hedging on towards what John was talking about having 621 01:19:26.370 --> 01:19:32.729 Robert Booher: a multi multi-family situation. And then the third thing I wanted to 622 01:19:33.390 --> 01:19:43.770 Robert Booher: point out that the accessory dwelling unit requirements for lot coverage are 25% and 30%. 623 01:19:44.540 --> 01:19:48.830 Robert Booher: But the. But in this ordinance an ad, you 624 01:19:48.970 --> 01:20:00.110 Robert Booher: accessory going is 10% so there is potentially a conflict between like what Joan was saying. If you have the garage. And you wanna you want to 625 01:20:00.180 --> 01:20:02.689 Robert Booher: turn turn it into an adu 626 01:20:02.790 --> 01:20:06.620 Robert Booher: is the is the 2025% 627 01:20:06.640 --> 01:20:14.370 Robert Booher: the controlling lot coverage? Or is the 10% the controlling. So you may want to take a look at that. 628 01:20:18.990 --> 01:20:19.700 John Compton: Okay. 629 01:20:23.420 --> 01:20:30.259 John Compton: okay, we got a lot of other people here hopefully, I mean, they may be just listening. 630 01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:38.490 John Compton: we've almost been at this a little over an hour and 15 min. Does anybody else have any comments directed at the ordinance. 631 01:20:42.390 --> 01:20:52.369 John Compton: Okay, I'm not seeing anyone. The intention of of the Council. I'll speak for the Council, although I'm the mayor. 632 01:20:52.380 --> 01:21:11.509 John Compton: Is to entertain the ordinance at the February meeting and start some discussion obviously based on what we've heard here. There are a number of issues that need to be that the Council may feel need to be addressed 633 01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:15.649 John Compton: before. They want to act on this 634 01:21:15.750 --> 01:21:24.170 John Compton: on this ordinance. Proposal that has been introduced, and the Council does need to either adopt. 635 01:21:24.460 --> 01:21:28.199 John Compton: check it or alter it 636 01:21:28.280 --> 01:21:31.260 John Compton: potentially, as in the past 637 01:21:31.860 --> 01:21:36.729 John Compton: fairly recently. It could be sent back to the planning commission 638 01:21:36.740 --> 01:21:44.490 John Compton: for alteration. There's a variety of things available, but the next step is to start discussing 639 01:21:44.650 --> 01:21:45.960 John Compton: the 640 01:21:47.430 --> 01:21:54.650 John Compton: what we've heard today. And of course, all all of these these concerns. I think 641 01:21:55.700 --> 01:21:58.390 John Compton: that Barbara was gonna speak to 642 01:21:58.510 --> 01:22:06.699 John Compton: some some just forward thinking. As to you know, if there are revisions, what, what? How will we go about 643 01:22:06.920 --> 01:22:33.349 Barbara: finishing this ordinance, getting it to the point of a vote in our lifetime right in our lifetime. You said that, John. Yes. So this is really helpful tonight to hear everybody's point of view on the different aspects of it. And I know that I and other counselors have been reading the written input as well, and my suggestion would be is after we have an opening discussion in our town council meeting next month 644 01:22:33.350 --> 01:22:39.539 to form a smaller committee who can really start to hammer some of these things out and really 645 01:22:39.860 --> 01:22:58.300 Barbara: walk through the comments that were made, and consider each one carefully and a lot of times that's done in a in a better. In a smaller committee it can be more streamlined and more efficient. And so that's what I would suggest. I know Peter has expressed interest, and Eva and I would be interested in doing that as well. 646 01:22:58.300 --> 01:23:17.510 Barbara: So that would be one way of moving forward to assign it to this very small committee. And of course we would continue to get input from any residents or any commissions or committees that that wanted to, as long as we were working on it, and then come back with something, you know, closer to the final version for the Town Council to 647 01:23:17.580 --> 01:23:24.970 Barbara: approve as a whole, you know, in in a town council meeting. So that would be the the general outlines of the plan. 648 01:23:29.230 --> 01:23:30.959 John Compton: Okay, 649 01:23:31.740 --> 01:23:41.170 John Compton: The public hearing record will remain open through the council meeting in February. As I 650 01:23:41.580 --> 01:23:52.639 John Compton: suggested earlier. And if if if indeed some revisions are seem 651 01:23:53.310 --> 01:24:06.890 John Compton: seem seem advisable, and a and a small group puts together those revisions depending on how extensive they are. There would be, you know, there would be additional public comment. 652 01:24:06.990 --> 01:24:18.460 John Compton: opportunities for residents in Washington growth. Nobody wants to do anything that everybody hasn't had plenty of opportunity to 653 01:24:18.630 --> 01:24:28.129 John Compton: weigh in on and and give everybody their advice and thoughts. So this isn't gonna happen. We don't. We're not under the gun on this one 654 01:24:28.330 --> 01:24:35.920 John Compton: but by the same token, we don't want it to drag on longer. There's other other issues. 655 01:24:36.080 --> 01:24:43.649 John Compton: So I think we have a plan. Thanks, everybody. And 656 01:24:43.810 --> 01:24:52.319 John Compton: we'll we'll give a brief review in the in the Bulletin, and then take it up in the Council on February twelfth. 657 01:24:53.880 --> 01:24:54.600 John Compton: Okay. 658 01:24:55.690 --> 01:25:03.219 Paula Puglisi: thank you. Planning permission. Thanks, everybody. 659 01:25:03.260 --> 01:25:05.099 Robert Gilmore: Good night, everyone. Thank you.